The GTI 1.8t is the better car by far. That 1.8t engine is a gem and develops most of it's hp/ torque at only 1950 rpm, it'll blow the doors off the Civic. The only weak area of th GTI is the soft suspension which VW has the cure for - Eibach sport springs. I made them part of the lease on my 2002 Reflex Silver GTI with 17's and luxury package.

1 Hondas have higher insurance rates than VW. I own a GTI and the insurance rate is not higher than for a regular Accord.

The GTI's 7.2-second 0-62mph time equates to a sub 7-second 0-60 time. The fact that the GTI does it with 56 less horses than the upcoming Mazda 3 tells me that you really have to wind the Mazda engine to get to its peak torque - while the GTI's peak torque starts at 1850 rpm. A prime example of "less is more".

GTI MSRP for 03 is $19,640 and Si MSRP is $19,000. GTI has better performance, better wheels, better crash test rating, 2 year longer warranty. GTI is more fun to drive. As far as reliability the GTI has average to above average reliability scores so you must think the majority of all cars are known as "somewhat unreliable". Is this correct?

Golf vs Civic... you wish Honda. First of all, Golf is a good car, it's fun to drive and it's for sure the best hatchback sold in USA. Honda? My friend just bought one -> Civic HX , spent about $17,000. I have to tell you, I was very disappointed with car - it looks cheap, handles cheap and engine... it's just not fun to drive.

I agree with your reasoning on why the GTI didn't win that comparison, but first I'd like to comment on you. Why are you backing a car you don't even o

The Civic Si ought to blow the doors off of a basic Mazda 3. It's the performance model of the Honda, vs. the basic model of the 3. But relative to the cars it competes with, it is quick. Quicker than the Civic, Elantra, Cobalt, Corolla, and Jetta, of comparable price and class. Last I checked, the Mazda 3s wasn't being compared to a Civic Si?

don't recall the bulky '95-99 Toyota Avalon w/ low-tech suspension riding this comfortably! Or any 95-99 VW for that matter

"These discussions too often turn into 'this one is better and everything else sucks' (ahem fasterthanyou ) when i think it'd be nice if it was more along the lines of 'why i like this one best for me."' I'm not saying everything else sucks.

Amen. I always remind my fiancee, never leave anything in the car you can't afford to lose.